Reader Ideas
Posted by jtbourne on November 2, 2009 · 24 Comments
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I received a few reader emails over the weekend on topics to address.
The discussion of a head-checking penalty:
My thoughts - Why is this a “discussion”?
Good height for an elbow to be, right?
I heard them say somewhere that if they were to institute this penalty, they’d have a lot of work to do in terms of discerning things like player height, moving forward vs. backwards, intent etc. – just a lot of details to work out.
So work the f***ing details out.
People at the NHL get paid to work right? So this is what work is. Figure out the boundaries of this penalty and call it. NHL pundits are shocked at the amount of injuries this year. Why, I’m not sure.
Football teams play 16 games a year, largely because it’s such a physical, dangerous sport that it’d be unsafe to play many more games than that. Well, wake-up call, professional hockey is pretty physical too, on a harder surface, with speed-building skates on. Not only is 82 games too many (as much as I love to watch lots of hockey), but we need to do a better job protecting our players.
I’ve been on too many teams with too many guys that I’ve seen try to ride the bike for three/four minutes and have to lie down for three/four hours they’re so nauseous. Concussions are growing in frequency with better equipment because players are bigger and faster, and are only getting moreso. Should there be a head checking penalty? By tomorrow.
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What players think hearing an American anthem as a Canadian (or vice versa), and what players think in general during the anthem:
As a Candian, I love the US. And as an American, I love Canada. It’s fun to create rivalries based on location (Green Bay/Minny, for example). But it’s ridiculous to say we have many differences at this point, so both anthems are great.
Any differences we do have are based on geography. The south of the US is different from the north because conditions are. Canada is just the slightly-farther-north-US (the same way the US is just the slightly-farther-south-Canada) with socialized medicine (not to launch into another debate, but my brother just spent a week in the hospital as you know, and wheeled out. No worries of cost, no stress, no “we’re screwed for life”. My mom is on disability for her back and my Dad runs the Fantasy Camp. Without socialized medicine, my family would be homeless. My bro has trouble getting a week’s travel insurance to even come to the US - good luck trying to get it as a resident).
On a lighter note, when I was listening to the anthem as a starter, all I thought was “hit-hit-hit”. Truly. I never played on one team that the coach didn’t want to “go out and set the tone”. Hitting someone gets you in it. And, when I would get ROCKED early on, which wasn’t all that rare, I usually played better (assuming I didn’t get hurt). There’s something about it that flipped the adrenaline switch for me and got me going.
So as a rookie in the WCHA, my first game playing in North Dakota’s Englestad Arena, our line was called to start. It’s chaos in there. I loved playing in NoDak (and actually, my record there is surprisingly good), but I was a tad nervous that first time. All I could think about was running someone. Apparently, it was literally all I could think. The next day’s headline was “Oh, those rookies”. I left my helmet on for the whole anthem, cage and all. Atta kid. (Doyle Woody, the teams beat-writer is an occasional reader – care to weigh-in, Doyle?)
And last, for your discussion:
Fan etiquette in an opposing teams rink:
I’m not sure how to answer that one. My guess is the best fans will light-heartedly engage the home-team fans, cheering and booing at the right moments. Whaddya think guys? How much of a fan can you be in the opposing teams building without earning off-ice d-bag status?
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Possibly the most conversation-worthy piece (a nice way of saying controversial) I’ve ever written drops tomorrow. As usual, the link will be provided.
I'm a hockey player turned writer. After playing for Alaska Anchorage in the WCHA (NCAA), I carried on with an NHL tryout (New York Islanders in 2007) before spending a couple seasons in the AHL/ECHL (last year was 2008-09). My father, Bob Bourne, won four Stanley Cups with the Islanders in the '80's, as did my fiancee's dad, Clark Gillies. I'm now the web editor for theScore's hockey blog "Backhand Shelf."
The total incompetence of the NHL officials and the failure of the NHL to adequately suspend/fine people are making it really hard to be optimistic about regulating head shots in any meaningful way. It goes without saying that hitting somebody with medieval body armour is going to hurt them more than if you wore hockey gear with padding rather than weaponry on the elbows and shoulders. It also seems clear from watching old games that guys weren’t always able to fly around the ice unimpeded: when your D-man was going into a corner and someone was flying in for the hit at Mach 5, a forward tended to get a stick out there to slow the guy down (or maybe he’d even just grab him), now it’s a hook (unless your team already had a powerplay recently). I think the game has changed a lot for the better but the speed has made it easier to rail people, and the NHL and its refs have once again totally failed the fans and players by refusing to adapt (apparently they can only change policy when Brett Hull complains every week for a decade and retires early).
What drives me friggin crazy is the possibility that we could technically keep head shots in the game but take them mostly out (without any rule changes) by simply calling the game the way the rules say. We should be increasing suspensions on idiots who purposely try to hurt guys without any thought of the short suspensions they occasionally receive (3 games for a head shot? I’ll put that on my resume under “tough guy who plays with an edge” and make 600k next year, you sure showed me). Charging is the biggest one for me: the NHL rulebook says a charge should be called on “a player or goalkeeper who skates or jumps into, or charge an opponent in any manner”, as a charge results from “the actions of a player or goalkeeper who, as a result of distance traveled, shall violently check an opponent in any manner” whether it is “a check into the boards, into the goal frame or in open ice”. http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=26331 This begs the question: according to the NHL rules, what kinds of checking are actually allowed?
When an NHL official calls someone for charging it means they wanted that team to have a powerplay. Jmho, but at least 25% of the hits you see in the average NHL game clearly fit the criteria for charging. So, your elbow was down and the contact was shoulder-to-head? So what?
Adam Foote from the Globe and Mail:
“There’s more disrespect for the opponent than there ever was – and they just have to be harsher on the suspensions,” said Foote in an interview. “If guys (such as Ruutu) are going to miss two games or three games, that’s not enough. I worry now because of the speed, strength and size of the guys. Every year, they get bigger and stronger. If they keep hitting each other with more disrespect – from behind, when the guy is two feet from the board – someone’s going to get seriously hurt and somebody’s gotta be responsible for that.
“I just don’t think it’s going in the right direction. They’ve gotta clamp down on it, I think.”
Two thoughts from your responses: (1) All in favour of Neil writing a hockey blog say “aye”. Aye. You could do this much better than I can (my “having played” advantage can only carry me so far).
(2) It’s like they’re waiting for the “oh, the guy died?” immediate rule-change nightmare. Then it gets named the “smith” rule, or whatever the name of the poor sufferer is. It’s going to happen, or at least serious paralysis. Nip it in the bud NOW, so it can just be called the “common-sense rule”.
As far as fan etiquette, I’ll share this, which was my worst experience ever at a hockey game: During one of the years I was at college outside Boston, my mom planned a trip scheduled around my playing schedule and the Islanders playing at Boston. We got 100-level seats behind the net the Islanders would shoot at twice. We both wore Islander jerseys.
At about the start of the second period, I got hit in the shoulder by a peanut. Thought nothing of it, until about the third time it happened. And it happened throughout the game, and overtime. It took me about a period to narrow it down to an area (I was sitting at the beginning of the row, so a bit of an ‘easy target’). By overtime I pretty much figured it out; it was a dad and his teen age son. Got confirmation of it since I flipped them off walking out of the arena after the game and they burst into laughter. Ended up getting hit myself about a dozen times and my mom a few times too. I was wishing I’d see the two of them outside after the game. Completely and utterly ruined the game and made it a waste of a good chunk of money.
I worked for 12 years as a motorsports writer and the whole issue of head trauma in the NHL has a corollary in NASCAR racing.
At the end of the 1990s there was a rash of deaths in NASCAR’s touring series, all due to high speed impacts with concrete walls. In two of these cases, the two incidents happened within a couple of months of each other in virtually the same way (the cars’ throttles hung at nearly 150mph and the drivers were killed because of inadequate safety devices in the car and no cushioning on the walls). You’d think that this would be a call to action and, indeed, many pundits (including myself) were livid about NASCAR’s utter failure – and, in fact, blatant recalcitrance – to institute rule changes and introduce safety measures to prevent these things from recurring. But even after the grandson of Richard Petty was killed, NASCAR continued to hem and haw and say that they had done business for 50 years the way things were and that changes would make the sport less attractive. This philosophy was aided and abetted by its top star drivers, headed up by Dale Earnhardt who basically called the safety lobby a bunch of pussies and told them to grow a set.
In 2001, Earnhardt himself was killed precisely because of the same inadequate safety conditions extant in the sport. This time, however, NASCAR did a complete reversal of their opinions and within two years every track in the top three touring series had energy-absorption systems, the drivers wore head-and-neck protection systems and full face helmets, and the cars were reinforced with stronger cages and safety innovations that had actually been around already for decades. Since then, the number of critical injuries and ended careers have plummeted – as has all of the talk of the “pussification” of major league racing by “caving in to the safety Nazis.”
The reason I share this seeming non-sequitur is the same reason why I sent Justin a veritable epistle on the subject of head injuries in hockey over the weekend – because the NHL is in the same position NASCAR was in a decade ago. They are stubbornly clinging to their subjectivity because they are loathe to piss off traditionalists in the fan ranks and within their own fraternity. And it’s going to eventually bite them squarely on the nutsack when a player the caliber of Sidney Crosby or Alex Ovechkin is crippled by one of these VERY avoidable injuries.
NASCAR did have to weather some fan backlash when they made their changes (essentially, they made their break with the “old school” fans by doing so) but those grousers were replaced by new fans who were acclimated to the state of the sport as it stood, not as it was glorified by sentimentalists focused squarely on the past. The NHL would do well to do the same instead of managing the game based on principles and ideas that, realistically, died or became irrelevant the day the lockout ended.
Oh, and I still sing “Oh Canada” at every appropriate home game along with the National Anthem out of respect to the flag – even if it’s the Habs playing. Some things transcend even acceptable sports fan douchery.
My personal standards for fan interaction are pretty simple – so long as everything stays good-natured, and as long as you’re still willing to buy the guy a beer after the game, there’s no limit to the amount of “the business” you can exchange. No applauding opposing player injuries (I’m looking at YOU, douchey Ducks fan lady wearing the Wisniewski sweater), no dumping beers on opposing fans’ kids, and no mean-spirited low-blow stuff.
If they called charging the way it the rule book calls it, Ovechkin would be the most penalized player in the NHL.
I actually had a similar conversation with Bob and we were in agreement that a large factor in the increased head shots is that the players don’t police themselves nearly as much as they used to. Years ago if you hit someone from behind, you dealt with the other team and generally got your face bashed in. It’s amazing how the threat of that makes you play with more respect. Personally, if I made millions of dollars a year I’d rather take a hit on my paycheck than get hit in the face repeatedly by Clark Gillies. In todays NHL, it almost seems like the players are afraid to take care of business like cheapshots because they are afraid of putting their team shorthanded or fear of getting suspended themselves.
@Beckmann – exactly. Case in point – the Wisniewski hit on Shane Doan. Wisniewski clocks Doan with a clearly dirty elbow shot, punishable in the NHL rulebook by a game misconduct. Refs give Wisniewski no penalty on the play. Keith Yandle, who probably has five fights in his life, goes after Wisniewski and gets 17 minutes in penalties while Wisniewski got a 5 for fighting.
It’s that basic inequity and ridiculousness that makes the league look really bad; moreover, it reduces the accountability on the player side that historically kept things “honest.”
To add insult to injury, the league decided not to review the hit because Doan ended up coming back out to play (and handily beat the stuffing out of Wisniewski while he was at it). IMO the hit itself needs to be judged and penalized, not the outcome of it. That kind of reactive thinking is going to get someone REALLY hurt one of these days.
Re: head checking
Minor hockey (here in Quebec at least) has a “check to the head” rule (minor + game misconduct I believe). The OHL and college hockey have the rule. heck, the IIHF has the rule. Why not the NHL? Of course a few guys will get tossed in the first year or two of the new rule; players will adjust just like they adjusted to the obstruction rules.
Third and fourth liners are seen as expendable by NHL coaches/decision makers. But the day a Crosby/ovechkin/Stamkos/Iginla has a career-ending injury because of a hit to the head, it will already be too late for a rule change…
I always wondered what you guys were thinking about during the anthem(s). I always notice the skates rocking back and forth and minds are definitely somewhere else. On the fan side, one thing I’ve noticed is that when you attend a hockey game in Canada, 60% of the fans will sing the “Oh, Canada” anthem along with the anthem singer. In the US, if someone sings along with the Star Spangled Banner, they get looks from other fans basically saying “why are you singing?”
Justin, what is your feeling about face shields or cages in the pros? In rec hockey, I’ve probably saved myself $10,000+ in oral surgery by having a cage.
I agree with the head checking penalty. The boundaries would be pretty simple as far as I’m concerned, if your point of impact is the head, you get at least a four minute minor. Even if you’re Chris Pronger checking M. St.Louis, too bad, four minutes. If the guy is really that small, then go low and try to put your ass into his chest. Body checks are more effective at stopping a player anyway, you more effectively cancel his forward momentum by applying reverse energy to his core, the center of gravity. That’s where I assumed the phrase ‘getting stood up’ comes from. When a guy gets hit flush in the body, he freezes for a second. And he probably feels it more than when he gets the lights turned out.
I realize hitting is by nature not something you analyze before you participate in it, the opportunity comes and goes in an instant and god knows you’re not gonna let the guy get past just because you don’t have a perfect shot at him. That’s why the penalty should be defined as where you make contact on the guy. The Richards hit on Booth was shady because Richards could have laid him out any way he chose, Booth had no idea it was coming. He could have lowered the shoulder and put it right into his chest, and it still would have been a sick, legal hit. Instead, he rose up and took his head off at the chin.
The NHL should make a change – either make pads with plastic inserts illegal (Sher-Wood 5030s anyone?) or roll out the head-hunting rule. No questions. Add in no-touch icing while we’re at it. Most sports reach the point where they have to regulate equipment back from the technological precipice to keep it competitive, the NHL will either have to follow suit or institute harsh penalties for breaching acceptable play.
Making big hits might dry out a bit while players figure out just where they can blast a guy who doesn’t see them and has his chin glued to his chest (especially, as someone mentioned, if you’re Chris Pronger trying to stop St.Louis). I hate seeing guys put their elbow down yet aim for the head (a la Richards) and I like the idea of getting that out, I just worry that it will have unintended consequences.
As for the instigator rule and policing themselves, I don’t doubt for a second that it worked (mainly because it sounds like guys who actually played back then say exactly that) but my instinct is that if something is happening enough (and identifiable enough) to warrant letting tough guys go pummel someone without an extra penalty, it has to be something worthy of a penalty or a suspension and we should at least create the impression we’re trying that plan first
The NFL seems like a good example because those guys are in each other’s faces allllllll game and their discipline is almost always really good. Obviously the respect thing would be nice too, but good luck there.
It’s stunning that hitting a guy in the head isn’t automatically a huge penalty! Thr strike zone changes based on the height of the player. If you’re tall – aim lower! I worry a lot about the short and long term health of the players. I can’t imagine what getting out of bed feels like after some of those hits. Or what it feels like when they are 75 years old.
I think that not many people sing the Star Spangled Banner because it is a tough song to sing! I don’t think it’s out of disrespect. O Canada is easy to sing and such a pretty song! We sing along at all the games vs Canadian teams.
Agreed, the suspensions need to be longer and major penalties need to be called. At first they will go overboard and call everything but in the long run it will be much better for the game. The NFL is a horrible example though, they have had more of a problem with the head shot thing than the NHL has. They implemented additional penalties for the same types of hits this off season and so far there has still been plenty of head shots (helmet on helmet). There was a hit last year were a player (Boldin) pretty much broke his face and was the main reason for implementing the new stiffer penalties and fines. They did do the right thing by implementing something before someone dies but the problem is the same thing the nhl will face. I think they fine someone say 50,000 dollars but how much does that really deter someone when you are making millions of dollars a year. Unless they come up with very stiff fines and suspensions it won’t change much……..
We’ve covered NFL and NHL in this thread, but what about MLB? Baseball is responsible for some of the worst head injuries around. The other day I accidentally left the TV on Sportsnet and the World Series was on when I walked by. I vaguely recall being overcome with an intense malaise and dizzying level of apathy. When I came to, I was laying on the ground beside the coffee table with a small cut on my forehead.
@Jbrown: Very nice. +1.
Please, lets try to leave out the Green Bay / Minnesota thing out of it. Having lived in both states for multiple years (without being “from” either state) I can tell you right now the relationship is not healthy. Saying your “from Wisconsin” is enough to put some people in Minnesota on edge. It’s not just a pro football thing, its not just a college hockey thing, its a day to day dick contest between the two states on everything from beer to conceal and carry laws to higher education admission agreements. One on one people seem like they can get alone but put a group of 10 together and have the numbers be uneven and I promise some people are gonna argue about something trivial, or at least yell “your team sucks” at some point.
Bourne, you may be interested in reading this. http://www.startribune.com/sports/gophers/68801117.html?elr=KArksi8cyaiUo8cyaiUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aUU
Thoughts?
It’s ironic that the ineffectual ways they’re trying to “clean up the game” is taking away the very real fear that kept players on the level.
On the other hand, hearing an interview with Ruutu before he knew what kind of suspension/fine/whatever he was going to hit where he said (basically) “I know I’m going to get a suspension, but I’ve already talked to him (Tucker) and he’s going to be fine, so I feel much better” just made my day.
The minute an NhL hockey player dies on the ice (and unfortunately, it WILL happen), everyone will be up in arms over it and will be making stupid comments about how it could have been avoided. It’s too bad everyone involved would rather be re-active instead of pro-active. I can’t get that upset or spend time worrying about this issue if the players and people who run the league don’t care enough to take precautions to prevent it from happening. Basically, if they don’t care, why should I? I just can’t wait to see all the lawsuits and government inquiries once a death does occur. Should be some side show.
re pre game Anthems: i just don’t get them. I don’t know the words to the Belgian anthem, I might recognise the tune as “our anthem”‘ when someone sings it, but that’s a BIG maybe… So every time I record an NHL game the anthems get fast forwarded. See, I respect people, and to me, flags, nations boundaries are dividing people into groups that differentiate themselves from other groups. Diferentiating leads to misundertanding for a lot of uninformed/intellectiually challenged people, and from there it can go anywhere up to genocide… I do not digg that… So, imho, anthems are useless… No, I am not a patriot… I’m proud of my cultural, historical heritage and surroundings but I’m also proud of others cultural and historical heritage. We are all one you see (or you don’t as suits you best)
Head shots? no discussion, take ‘em out. and do it consequently, suspend for example Mike Richards after his dirty hit a couple of weeks ago. Not just tha Jarko Ruutu’s and Sean Avery’s and Chris Neil’s of hockey.
Fan behaviour? remember, people have a different opinion, someone likes the Ducks, another likes the Islanders, I like the Sabres, we’re all here to have a good time. And the people that are here to get drunk and obnoxious, or the people that want to get in a fight have cheaper alternatives available that will have a better return on what they’re after…
Re: North Dakota — I remember thinking, “Man, that kid’s the tallest Squirt I’ve ever seen win the “Skate With the Seawolves During Introductions” contest.
Keep up the good work, Justin — you’re doing terrific stuff.
I also subscribe to the Jbrown’s view. Concerning authorities should devise some new rules to avoid the critical Injuries to the players that are becoming the root cause of ending up their careers.